Rhett

March 29, 2024

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Location:

Lake Havasu City,AZ,

Member Since:

Sep 29, 2008

Gender:

Male

Goal Type:

Boston Qualifier

Running Accomplishments:

23 marathons

6 Bostons (2007-2011, 2017)

3 Half Ironmans

2 Ironmans

3 50 Milers

1 Grand Canyon Rim to Rim to Rim

Marathon PR:

     2:59:00 St. George 2008

     2:58:03 Boston 2010

 1/2 Marathon PR:

     1:25:41  Havasu Half 2009

     1:24:09 Painter's St.George 2010

 Half Ironman PR:

      5:25:02  HITS Havasu 2014

5K PR:

       18:23  LHC Turkey Trot 2014

        18:22  LHC Turkey Trot 2017

50 mile PR:

        7:56:14 Avalon50 2016

Short-Term Running Goals:

Break 3 hours again

Doing it a Boston would be sweet!

It was sweet!

UPCOMING RACES

 

Long-Term Running Goals:

Have fun!

 

Personal:

Married

4 kids

Optometrist

 

Favorite Blogs:

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Miles:This week: 0.00 Month: 0.00 Year: 0.00
Salomon Sense Pro 4 Lifetime Miles: 320.00
Salomon Ultra Pro Lifetime Miles: 387.00
NB 1500 V6 Lifetime Miles: 219.00
Adizero Pro Lifetime Miles: 57.00
Hoka Clifton 8 Lifetime Miles: 346.00
Brooks Ghost 14 Lifetime Miles: 343.00
Brooks Ghost 14 #3 Lifetime Miles: 163.00
Inov8 G270 Lifetime Miles: 20.00
Easy MilesMarathon Pace MilesThreshold MilesVO2 Max MilesCrosstraining milesTotal Miles
6.000.000.000.000.006.00

I was so excited to get out and run.  I really felt like my knee was going to be fine.  I made it 3/4 mile before the pain started creeping in.  I stopped before it got bad and started walking back.  After a minute or so of walking I remembered how a few years ago I had to skip for a while instead of run when I was training for Boston. I decided to give it a try.  I found out that I can skip, run backwards, do a sideways shuffle, and most anything but run absolutely pain free, but as soon as I start to run any faster than about 10 minute mile pace my knee hurts.  It's so weird.  So anyways I did all those things for a total of 6 miles with an average pace of 10:23. I guess I have another week of cross training and I'll try again next Monday.

This is such a bizarre injury, because I can not make it hurt by doing anything but running.  I just can't figure out exactly what it is.  Any ideas????????

SpeedStar 4 Miles: 6.00
Comments
From timp on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 11:57:22 from 144.188.24.26

Oh man, I know that must be frustrating.

Someone around here should be able to diagnose you over the internet -

From Doone on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 15:29:53 from 184.10.156.75

I think it might be "old-man Bishop" disease - a rare condition suffered by the few men who run, serve as bishop and are almost 40. There is no known cure but providing chocolate for wife has been known to alleviate symptoms. Good luck with that.

From RivertonPaul on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 17:02:50 from 67.42.27.114

I hope the provide-chocolate-to-wife cure worked.

From Teena Marie on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 17:12:41 from 67.2.102.143

Oh ... this ought to be fun to think about. Question: Does it hurt to pool run or only to land run? (Or do you know?)

From MarcE on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 17:17:25 from 204.16.82.120

Be careful not to OD the wife on chocolate...it might hinder her running, too.

Sorry to hear you're having knee problems. Teena is almost a doctor now..so she should be able to figure your problem out.

From Mack on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 18:04:13 from 71.111.188.189

No ideas on what it is. But now that you can only run at 10 min mile pace I may jump on a plane and come down and go for a run with you. It would be kind of nice to see you have to run at the pace of us mid to back of the packers. :)

From Teena Marie on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 18:33:01 from 67.2.102.143

So far, from my own experiments that I have been doing in my hallway (very reliable top-notch studies -- ha ha) I can see a few biomechanic/kinematic differences between running, skipping, and rhetrorunning. 1. Where your center of mass is when landing. (Btw, are you a heel, midfoot, or forefoot striker?) 2. Impact time differences. 3. Quadricep role differences.

So, I take it that you no longer believe this to be chondromalacia?

Are you alternating between ice and heat?

From Smooth on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 18:57:23 from 67.2.99.196

I dunno! But I highly concur with Doone's diagnosis! It would help even more to supply the *patient* with chocolate tid and prn for as long as the symptoms persist!

From Rhett on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 19:13:58 from 184.10.158.86

Smooth,Unfortunately I've been taking chocolate PRN for the last few weeks and I don't think it is working. :)

Teena, I really don't know what's up. First I thought it was chondromalacia and it may be. There are some very similar things going on as to when I had that, but the pain is more in the patellar tendon. I still think it has something to do with my quad, because it just doesn't feel exactly right at the point of origin (groin area) although doesn't hurt, just a pulling sensation. I am a forefoot striker. The pain when running comes after push off when my leg is fully back and knee is bent and starts coming forward again. I however can stand in place and do that with my leg and it doesn't hurt. It's too cold to pool run so I don't know, but maybe I'll throw on the wet suite and give it a try. No I have not been icing. I know I should. I have been taping though and last week I took 800mg Ibuprofin 3x per day and didn't run all week.

Doctor Teena, please help!!! You can do it! :)

From Rhett on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 19:14:50 from 184.10.158.86

Mack, I'm sure you would smoke me in my current condition. I'd love to run with you some day though.

From Teena Marie on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 19:28:00 from 67.2.102.143

Explain exactly where the pain in your knee/patellar tendon is: Medial? Lateral? Distal? Proximal?

From Rhett on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 19:33:48 from 173.129.212.240

It is medial to central, right below (not under) the knee cap.

From Smooth on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 19:34:52 from 67.2.99.196

SSF ~ Both Rhett and I need your help, seriously!!!

Rhett ~ Do you have palpable pain in your knee when not running? Mine is in the insertion area of the tibia tuberosity, a dull ache, like a bruise.

The description of your pain when running sounds a lot like mine. I have been icing post run for 20 min tid, foam roll and stretch the legs, particularly the quadriceps. I didn't take any ibuprofen though. I also ignored Teena's and my son's advise to cut back on running! I'm a stubborn fool.

From Teena Marie on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 19:45:53 from 67.2.102.143

SSF~

I have been thinking about you all day and have a few thoughts. We can go over them in detail tomorrow evening as we party!!!! Also, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want you to look at the link I am putting here for Rhett. It's the links that you can get to through this link that I want you to look at. Seriously. Remember how I was telling you today that perhaps we could strengthen some of your other muscles, etc. This site goes over exactly what I was talking about and covers a lot of the strength training and stretches I was referring to. PLEASE look at it. :) :) :)

Rhett~

Have you considered that your problem may ("may" being the operative word) be stemming from your Adductor Magnus? This is just a thought ... in no way am I saying this is what it is. But when you said your groin area is tight it made me look some things up. Check this out: http://www.ehow.com/video_4945432_knee-problems-adductor-magnus.html

In fact, both you and Smooth should check out this site because it goes over an AWESOME rehab program for knee pain in general (you just have to click on the different boxes). Seriously, as I am watching it I am very impressed and going to implement a lot of the stuff for myself.

From Rhett on Tue, Feb 15, 2011 at 23:15:31 from 184.10.156.75

Smooth, no I don't have any pain when not running, but it sounds like our pain may be in the same are. I think Teena's idea sounds likely. I've actually been working on my adductors and quads since the knee pain started. I was thinking the same thing.

I jumped rope and did some core work and some leg work with stretchy bands tonight. No knee pain like usual... just can't run.

From Smooth on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 01:23:26 from 67.2.99.196

Is there any crepitus when you flex and extend the knee?

SSF ~ I checked out the site, good stuff for knee pain. I have been using the foam roller and stretching exercises much like the videos suggest. I will add the strengthening/rehab exercises. However I can't do the one-legged squat...too painful on the weight bearing affected knee. THANKS for posting the link.

From DaleG on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 01:44:13 from 152.216.7.5

Rhett...These dang knee problems sure are difficult to diagnose. I hope you can get it figured out soon. Maybe you should go see a doctor.

I saw my orthopedic specialist today and he ruled out a meniscus tear, so that's good. Oh, I forgot to mention to you that I have knee pain, in addition to the possible stress fracture near my hip. Anyway, he said he would look at that once we get the major pain figured out.

Back to my knee pain. It never hurts when I run or walk. It only hurts late at night in my sleep or if I sit too long. It's a really strange pain that almost causes me to collapse once I stand up. If I walk around for a few minutes, it goes away. You know the feeling when you get hit in the testicles? That's how it feels, but in my knee. That's probably the most accurate description of the pain.

From Doone on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:01:10 from 184.10.156.75

Sweetie - you set the blog on fire. Nothing like a weird running injury to get everyone's curiosity going. I too hope you can get back to running soon - I know how much you love it. Do you think some of that running passion can wear off on me?

From Rhett on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:44:59 from 184.214.178.96

Teena, I checked out the videos. I've been doing a lot of the strengthening exercises and stretching, but I don't have a foam roller. I'll have to get one.

Smooth, nope I don't get any "snap, crackle, or pop" in my knee. Do you?

Dale, I'll pass on any pain in my knee that hurts like that. I hope your doc has some solutions for you.

From Smooth on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:54:05 from 67.2.99.196

Rhett ~ Glad to hear the knee don't have any snap, crackle or pop. :) Neither does mine! At least not yet.

The next question is: is there any swelling?

I can't believe you don't have a foam roller. Don't let the word *foam* fool you. It is a torture machine in disguise! :)

From Rhett on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:06:15 from 74.41.249.102

Smooth, if it is that tortuous, I may just have to get one. I wonder if they sell them at Big 5.

From Smooth on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 13:29:57 from 67.2.99.196

I just checked the Big 5 website. They have them for $19.99. I got mine at Wasatch Running Center for $10. I've seen them at Sports Authority!

I promise the torture is worth every penny of it! :)

Hey, did you see/hear about the new registration process for Boston 2012 and the new qualifying time for Boston 2013?

http://www.boston.com/sports/marathon/blog/2011/02/baa_announces_new_procedures_f.html

From DaleG on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 14:46:17 from 67.2.86.29

Rhett, you must get a roller. It feels really good to roll out the hammies and quads.

As for them lowering the qualifying standards for Boston, now I'll NEVER get in. LOL. I barely make the qualifying time for 80+ year old males.

From Doone on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 15:10:02 from 184.10.156.75

Well I never thought I would actually qualify for Boston but now the standards are such that I don't have to feel bad about it - there is no way!! Maybe when I am in my 50's. Congrats to all the BQ's now and in the future.

From Rhett on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 15:10:15 from 74.36.36.156

I'll try and get a roller today if I have time.

Smooth, thanks for the link about Boston. I was starting to think this might be my last Boston, but with the new registration and qualifying, it might just keep me motivated to go for my 6th in a row next year... assuming this knee of mine starts behaving.

I like what they did with the registration. I think I would have done it a bit different, letting everyone with 10 minutes faster than their time register and then allowing everyone else to register and have a lottery with those names, but it's all good. Now if we're fast enough, we're pretty much guaranteed entry.

From Teena Marie on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 15:50:05 from 67.2.102.27

Hey Rhett,

Have you tried any simple KT taping techniques to help with the patella tracking? I really really really like Chris Harper's youtube videos on KT taping. Chris Harper is an awesome PT whom I have talked a lot to via email.

Here is a very simple one for Runner's Knee/Chondromalacia.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kt+tape+runners+knee&aq=f

From timp on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 16:23:59 from 66.167.50.219

Smooth - thanks for sharing the Boston qual and registration link.

I think I like what they did. I'm sure it will get a lot of people hot under the collar, but they certainly had to do something. It will be interesting to see how people react to it and how it works out these next couple years.

From Rhett on Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 16:42:35 from 74.36.36.156

Teena, yes I've given those techniques a try and it didn't make a lick of difference. In the past when I had runner's knee, I could wear a PT strap and it would greatly alleviate the pain. With my current injury, neither the PT strap nor the KT tape makes a difference. :(

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